Shivangi Prasad is an advocate with 8 years of experience, specializing in laws related to sexual harassment, gender and child rights. She is also the State President of Maharashtra Anti-Sexual Harassment Council at WICCI. Here’s Ms. Prasad in conversation with the Editor, Ms. Priya Chaudhary-
Q1 You have pursued a degree in B.L.S.LL.B. Degree from Government Law College, Mumbai. I suppose that the current generation of law students is not much aware of the curriculum and the course. How would you describe the same?
A1 Don’t think I can answer this question as I am not aware if students know about their curriculum/course etc. or not. From whatever I see, I see students being extremely passionate and really wanting to learn as much as they can. I see them being ambitious and wanting to make a space for themselves in this profession.
Q2 What have been your key takeaways from the 250+ training/awareness sessions on the Law against sexual harassment at the workplace that you’ve conducted?
A2 Over these years, from the multiple programs I have conducted, few things come out in most sessions:
– Several women share how they ‘got what they deserved’ in case if they were sexually harassed and question themselves. Somehow with the learnings, women have got since childhood (of not going out at night, not wearing ‘provocative’ clothing, not chatting with men etc.), I have seen most often blame themselves for whatever happened because they felt they must have worn something that attracted the other person or did or said something they should not have. Some also felt it was their karma. It has been extremely disheartening to see such a response and I have had to explain the various reasons for sexual harassment.
– Most of the time participants share about their fears – whether they would lose the job, whether they would be retaliated against, whether the employer will take any other action against them for filing a complaint etc.
– Most men in employee awareness programs ask about why the law is for women only and how it creates an unequal space. As a speaker, I have had to often explain the background and the kind of really heinous crimes against women India has seen for a law like Sexual Harassment Of Women At Workplace (Prevention, Prohibition And Redressal) Act, 2013 to be passed. And I also share the hope that the law would become gender-neutral eventually because the law is nothing but a representation of the society that we live in. With persons from the LGBTQIA+ community getting their rights and being able to work without any discrimination (with the passing of the new law) and men as well reporting grievances, I see that the society is evolving and with that, I also see the space in future for the POSH law to become gender neutral.
– Participants also ask a lot about false complaints (As if it is a norm and all complaints are false). As a speaker, I have to usually bust this myth that more often than not people do not even want to file a complaint about fear of confronting and losing a working relationship let alone filing a false one. 99% of the complaints I have handled have not been false.
Q3 Tell us about POSH at Work. How is it fulfilling its vision of being a legal cum psychology firm?
A3 POSH at Work believes that sexual harassment at the workplace does not only cause mental and/or physical damage to the person harassed but also seriously curtails opportunities at work by creating a discriminatory work environment. We believe that, in order to ensure equal participation and equal opportunity at work, it is extremely important to do away with discriminatory behaviour and re-instil the faith of employees/workers in the organization.
We believe that this can be done only with effective and efficient compliance with POSH Law – and not only from a legal standpoint but also from a psychological standpoint. We, therefore, provide expertise on POSH from a 360-degree perspective. We are equipped to handle high levels of distress that may arise due to harassment, inquiry etc., provide corporate / compliance-related advisory and handle litigation. All our programs are designed in a manner that not only covers legalities but also practical experience and talks about sensitivity and developing the much needed softer skills.
Q4 Now that companies and corporates are getting aware of sexual harassment compliances, do you think there’s an increased necessity for courses in universities on sexual harassment?
A4 Yes absolutely. It is essential. If students learn about this law in-depth, it will not only help them personally (because we all should know about a law such as this) but also help them in their career eventually because the POSH law mandates that all organizations that have 10 or more employees much comply with this law and non-compliance leads to penalties and cancellation of license to do business in repeat cases. You can only imagine how many organizations we are talking about. As awareness around the subject grows, more and more organizations will comply and more practitioners and experts will be needed. Hence, I highly recommend that this be taught as a
mandatory subject and not selective.
Q5 Please share your experiences working with Tata Group as a Legal Consultant.
A5 It was a wonderful experience. I had the best seniors and got the most amazing learning experience. I think that really set the base for me. I also happened to write a book with a senior on POSH which is called the ‘Handbook on the Law of Sexual Harassment at Workplace.’ It is a commentary and 2 editions have already been published by Thomson Reuters. I think that also cemented my career path.
Q6 How do you think has COVID-19 impacted POSH compliance? (considering the work from home concept)
A6 As you know, the law against sexual harassment at the workplace came into effect in 2013 and slowly and gradually, over the years, its compliance increased as did the awareness. This, however, took a hit in 2020 due to the pandemic when several other things became so much more important than complying with the law against sexual harassment at workplace. As reported, new research reveals that 9 out of 10 executives are finding it difficult to execute their strategies. The McKinsey research also reported the need for urgency around D&I highlighting that pre-existing inequalities have only been amplified by Covid-19 and diverse employees report additional challenges that have been felt more acutely than their non-diverse counterparts. Instances of online sexual harassment & violence also increased in 2020.
However, in spite of COVID-19 and the challenges that came along with it, several organizations have continued to carry on with their initiatives to create awareness, train their IC members, look for solutions to redress complaints efficiently, confidentially and on time so that they could continue to create a safer, healthier, more inclusive work environment – and these initiatives have and will go a long way in building trust & confidence in employees.
At POSH at Work we did not have to go through any lay-offs (touch wood) and we were able to sustain through the pandemic because our clients stuck with us because they believed in the importance of the work we do because they believed there is no substitute to a healthy and safe work environment – whether you are working at the office or from home. In exchange, we also ensured that we supported our clients in the best way we could, especially those who have had to take a major hit due to the pandemic. In many instances, services were given complimentary as well, as for us the cause is of a much larger value.
Q7 What is that cause that you’re really passionate about and would wish to advocate in the future?
A7 I think I already answered that above. Everyone at POSH at Work is deeply passionate about the law. It’s all we do, hence, it’s a little difficult to work here without passionately wanting to make a change. The other area I am personally very passionate about (and most members of the firm too) is the Transgender Persons law which has been recently passed and at POSH at Work, we are supporting our clients with requirements under this law as well.
Q8 You have also been recruiting interns for Posh at Work. What roles do they play and how have did they impact the organisation?
A8 I think often the contribution of interns is underappreciated. Whenever I have an intern working with me, there are 2 things that must happen: (1) the student should get to learn something new that would add value to their career (2) the firm should be able to get a contribution as well. Hence, all projects are designed in a way to achieve the above goals and I personally spend a lot of time working on the projects with them., giving feedback, pushing goals for increased learning, developing curiosity etc.
Q9 What advice do you have for students willing to build a career in POSH advisory?
A9 Start with understanding the law – it may seem like a small one but there are way too many nuances in it. There are several other laws that may have to be read together with POSH Law, get an understanding of those as well because no law can function in a vacuum. Try and do certificate courses, attend programs etc. by reputed persons to get a better understanding of the practical side of things. Intern with firms like ours to get a sneak-peak of how compliances look.
DO NOT build your learning on random internet research. In the past, I have seen students come with a completely opposite understanding of the law. While the internet is there to help us, as a law student, we cannot make that our only base. Going back to the actual law, actual judgment or order copy, actual circulars and guidelines issued by the government are extremely important and there is no substitute for it.
Think why you want to practice in this space – what is it that drives you? If you have the passion and are curious about this law, I am sure you will jump right in whether someone pushes you towards it or not and there is the only success that can follow thereafter!