Mr KP Sivaramakrishnan, an alumnus of CPJ College of Higher Studies & School of Law, is the founder of Sivaramakrishnan Law Offices. He has advised pharmaceutical, media production houses, FMCG companies and publications, among others, in establishing their brands and businesses. He worked as the Senior Legal Executive at ShowBox Channel. He believes in making India conscious of Intellectual Property, by breaking down the law in much simpler terms.
Q1. Your transition from a career in the music industry to practising law seems interesting. How and why did this happen?
I, per se, did not have a career in music. It was a hobby that I developed around the age of 12 and something that built into a passion over the next few months. My father was a musician and he chose it for me, which I am glad he did. I had thought of pursuing music as a career, but early on I read too much about the way the industry works. Somewhere I agreed to be safe and get a degree, and then pursue my passion. I chose Law as a profession and continued exploring different music projects with my friends and others in my network.
During my law school years, I became more focused on internships. Early on my internship after my second year, I was introduced to Intellectual Properties, and further to Copyrights. Eventually, my mind thought if law connects with creatives through Copyrights, then there is something more to it. Thus, a random Google Search with the term ‘music and law’, popped up ‘Media & Entertainment Law’ as a common term in the results. I knew I hit a rabbit hole, and yes, there was no looking back. I still tell this to all budding lawyers, to always listen to their minds, you never know what goldmine you might hit.
Q2. What drove your interest in the field of Intellectual Property Rights?
I still think the internship after my second year was the key. My senior would make us sit together and teach us the nuances of IP. That handbook that we interns received was the first material I ever read on IP. It had images of brands, and big multinational companies, which excited me.
Understand this perspective; back then, any new admission in law college is taught was on contracts law, followed by CPC, CrPC, IPC and Evidence (some being repealed now). People in India mostly believe that a law student will become an Advocate and argue in Courts, wearing a black and white uniform. Now, a student gets to know something beyond the general notion. To be more candid, it’s the most interesting field in IP. Imagine, you’re dealing with creations of the mind. I could know about businesses or industries and topics I wouldn’t have ever heard
Q3. Which factors have worked for and against you as a freelance lawyer?
My primary principle, when I started my practice, was to build value. I saw how law firms work, where your work is dependent on what the client gives you. I worked in two positions in companies, and I saw how the in-house role works when you’re dealing with counsels. There’s a lot more than what meets the eye. Based on these two distinct experiences, I imbibed a natural procedure of asking more questions from the client, pertaining to their businesses. And to be honest, that has told me a lot more about the clients. I have even advised a few clients to not pursue registrations or avenues in their businesses. This itself has become a bane too. I am not even remotely close to a business, unless running a law firm can be called a business. I have learned from my peers and my clients. A few seniors have been kind enough to guide me in advising the clients, and I have applied those suggestions in my practice too. It’s a learning process, and I am not quitting anytime soon.
Q4. You have had a diverse clientele ranging from pharmaceutical companies and media production houses to FMCG companies and music artists. Which type of clients do you enjoy working with the most?
I am sure I am going to offend a few clients, but I will still answer knowing the risk. I have the best experience working with media clients. It’s got more to do with my passion for music and also Media & Entertainment Law. There’s a kid in me who enjoys watching, listening or reading what my clients have created, and that’s the part I love the most. Avoiding the cliché tone, I love working for clients who are fired up or aggressive for their work. Their passion is evident and I get inspired most of the time. I end up giving them a shoutout before random people, or my other clients.
Q5. What is your strategy for negotiating successful deals for your clients?
I listen to my client first. It’s not that simple. It’s mostly a long meeting, where I always have a list of obvious questions for the client, and I will understand the terms agreed so far, and then move on with putting it in black and white. I move forward depending on whether the client wants an aggressive approach. Sometimes, the client is not aware of a better solution, or what they are missing out on, and that’s when I find a way back into shifting things. A few times the clients have backed out of a deal because they were duped from the beginning.
So yes, I am a client’s lawyer (I know how funny that sounds), but I do know where to put my foot down and explain to the client. As for the other side, yes, there are amicable solutions to agree to terms, which sometimes lead to heated arguments. It’s never personal, and since we are all humans, we have a soft corner somewhere.
Q6. Please tell us about your experiences as the Senior Legal Executive at ShowBox Channel.
Oh yes, ShowBox. That was my first stint in Media & Entertainment Law, after 4 years of practice. It was exciting and fun, because being a lawyer who had worked in firms, corporate employment was a completely different experience. The culture and pay slips to timings!
On the work front, it was all that I wanted. I worked on licensing deals and sat through negotiations too. I got to work on production contracts and my experience as a musician came in handy. I could connect better with the artists who visited us and could speak the technical jargon of the industry. It basically set the foundation right for me, both professionally and network-wise. My key takeaway was how different departments in a corporate structure work.
Q7. At your firm Sivaramakrishnan Law Offices, you also offer brand-building support to your clients which is a unique and interesting niche for an IP firm. What are some aspects the firm works on in this area?
This term ‘Brand Building Support’, came from something I was already doing for my clients. And it’s not restricted to brands also. After an initial few months, I onboarded a few clients who discussed their businesses at length with me. While discussing with them, I realised there were other clients who seemed to be the right fit for the services. I believed in building a community, wherein a client has access to other clients of mine.
For eg: A new client hired me to file an application for trade mark registration. However, they shared the struggles they were facing in building their brand. That’s when I arranged a call with another client, which is an excellent branding and marketing agency.
I ended up promoting all these brands, and realised that as lawyers, we are dealing with the businesses inside out, so why cannot we provide all the services under the same roof. The best part is, marketing advice, put together with legal advice, reduces a lot of complications. There’s a lot of scope in that space where both work together. This was an idea which formed from my experience of working in a corporate setup, where each department works with the other for one common goal.
Q8. Many aspiring IP lawyers get confused about whether to pursue good courses on IPR or pursue relevant internships. Do you think a balance needs to be maintained between both or one needs to be prioritised over the other?
Balance. As lawyers, learning never stops. The world of IP is dynamic, and will always be. So what you might be learning or reading right now, will have a different application on the field. Thus, work experience matters, whether it’s internships, freelancing or paralegal positions.
I know a few people who learnt the tricks by working and not focussing on knowledge. Well, it worked for them, but it’s dangerous too. If you ask me honestly, I think IP is 70% internships and 30% additional courses. An ideal internship should be one where you are given drafting or executory work. Merely researching and not knowing how to do something is not going to be the best. And it also depends on person to person. There is a transactional/ contracts/ registration side of IP, while there is a standard, yet dynamic litigation side of IP. Choose wisely. Internships are a ‘must’, while you ‘should’ enrol in courses.
Q9. What do you look for in a candidate seeking an internship at your law office?
I have this practice of speaking with an intern over a call. Not an interview, but a general conversation on interests and outlook. I really don’t like interns who have an attitude of doing an internship for the sake of a piece of document. I genuinely care about the interns I enrol. Sometimes, I have fallen hard on my face for doing so, yet, the ones who surprised me with their performances and outcomes have motivated me to continue believing in my principles.
I intake interns with or without IP experience because I love the challenge. I consider interns as team members, and I hope I treated the ones in the past that way. I do judge, but I’m honest if I decide against onboarding anyone. I even try to respond to all the applications, but it gets difficult after a point. However, I appreciate that students are considering my practice for internships.
Q10. Do you believe that the demand for freelance IP lawyers is going to increase in the era of digitisation and AI?
It most definitely is. Always. I believe that the ‘human element’ in the legal industry cannot be removed from the equation. I understand that today numerous people have the likes of ChatGPT or Bard by Google at the tip of their hands, and they constantly search for information and sometimes contracts too.
What they miss out on is that AIs work on their inputs, which in all likelihood do not give them the proper advice or information on their queries. This is where lawyers have been filling the gaps. One could get all the information and legal advice by reading law books or case laws, but a lawyer understands the history and how we reached the present, which is an essential part of legal advice.
Another perspective is to understand that the current AI and digital solutions available to the masses are still in the early stage of development. So the current solutions are only for very very basic reference and should not be relied upon. Additionally, they will be available at a premium, and that too for extensively researched answers. Lastly, India is a country where people depend on human connection, and that can only happen when they get to interact with or get to visit their lawyers/counsels. Thus, people cannot get that with an AI or digital solution. A few years down the road, the solutions will be better and lawyers will also be using it. But will they still replace lawyers, I don’t think so. Lawyers will in fact have more relevance and demand as they will always have a better connection and understanding of the world. Again, the ‘human element’ will have an upper edge.
I thank everyone at Desi Kanoon for being so patient with me and for giving me this opportunity to put my thoughts out there. I hope to reach out to more students and colleagues through this.